Turning down a career development grant to work at a teaching college

Summary:

Am I crazy for even considering this?

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Turning down a career development grant to work at a teaching college

am_I_insane (guest) 29 Jan 2016 21:14

Very complicated situation:

1. I was recently a postdoc in a two-year training program in a psychiatry dept at a med school affiliated with an elite R1 institution. Applied for an NIMH K career development award to obtain more training + salary (~$80k/yr) + research funds ($50K/yr) for 4 years. Got a score the 1st time, but not the funding. Waited for the next cycle and reapplied. Waited some more for re-review.

2. While waiting for 2nd round of review, I needed to move for family reasons to an area about 7-8 hours away from postdoc program site. Two-year postdoc was ending also, so no real funding at R1.

3. To pay the bills, I found a VAP teaching at a very small bachelors-level college.

• 3/4 teaching load, so getting lots of teaching exp, which was a weakness in a prior round of applications.
• Basically, no research opportunities to speak of - except what you can scrounge up by giving psych students extra credit. Don't even have lab space, and I am bio/cog. Hardly any research required for tenure.
• Low pay for VAP (less than my postdoc, about half of what I'd make if I took the K).
• Not very select student body (top 50% of high school class), but some students are smart, dedicated, and most are really grateful to be there. Some are on heavy financial aid and/or are first-generation college students. Some students are not very engaged in class, but as a whole they are less likely to whine about grades as the students I used to teach at my grad institution (a top R1 school).
• I've made teaching fun here, even though it is a lot of prep right now. It is getting easier as I go. I still bang my head against the wall (metaphorically) when I read some of the truly awful responses from students on essay questions. (Example: in Freud's anal stage adolescents put stuff in their butts to see how it feels). WTF!

4. In my first semester teaching at bachelors college (FA 15), I received the NIMH K award, based out of my postdoc program 7-8 hrs away from new home. To avoid bailing on bachelors college and being a jerk leaving them with no one to teach classes, I deferred the start date of my grant until after the end of my 1 year VAP.

5. Now having second thoughts about trying to run my K grant and receive my training from 7-8 hours away. Would likely need to spend at least 1 week per month at the postdoc site. Logistics of where I would live are kind of a mess (might have to use grant money for hotels, eating into bottom line). Biggest issue: I have three young kids, and my partner works long hours (as a psychologist working in a hospital). We have some extended family support nearby (part of the reason for the move), but a full week away per month would be tough on everyone I leave back there.

6. Applied for a job at an R2 school nearer to me (and basically the only R-like school close enough to count). Dithered too much and applied late, and they gave the position to someone else. Naively assumed that I could exist outside process and I would be "free" because if I transferred the K to them I could pay my salary for 4-5 years. I doubt they read my application, so they might not even know that. Because of the rules of the K, I could only dedicate a max of 25% of my time to the R2, so I was worried about that. I could still contact them and see if I could come on as an extra "bonus hire", but not sure if that would be presumptuous.

7. There's also a med university near the R2 (not affiliated with R2) that I could try to transfer to - it's where my partner works. However, I fear that if I go this route, I could end up on "soft money" forever. Also, because my work is mostly clinically-oriented, but I have a research PhD, I worry I am training for a job that doesn't exist. My research project relies heavily on the infrastructure that my mentor built and the med university is under-resourced relative to the place it is based out of. If they let me transfer (not a given), I would have to build lab from scratch myself and find clinical help. I really do enjoy both teaching and research, and I think I would love an R- or SLAC-like job where I could do both if I could handle the pressure. I could also see myself crashing and burning at an R school (sometimes I feel that I lack the almost-myopic focus that research sometimes seems to require). So this route could be great or terrible or somewhere between, but it seems hardest to tell. I put out a feeler to someone in the med university and hope to meet with them next week. They could take over as my new primary mentor, but I have no idea if they care to.

8. I have come to like teaching here at the small bachelors college (despite the above issues), so I asked if there were a possibility for me to get a TT faculty position. Financially, I probably cannot handle another low-paying VAP, but a TT position would be a pretty big pay bump (almost $8k). The psych dept here really likes me and I like them. As a bio/cog person, I help round out the small program. They have been clamoring to administration for a new faculty hire for a while because they are way understaffed. They were happy for me when I told them about the grant, but they are also happy now that I am considering accepting a TT faculty position if offered one. They will talk to the dean who talks to the board and will let me know soon.

I worry that I will regret any decision that I make:
A) turn down grant and get stuck (comfortable?) at bachelors college,
B) transfer to med school or try to wheedle into R2 somehow (least certain), or
C) try to manage grant from far away and deal with all of the family and logistical issues.

Part of me thinks about bailing out of academia altogether and becoming something less highly specialized (though that would require more training). I guess that is my total fallback plan.

I feel both like I cannot make a wrong decision and also that I cannot make a right decision. Either way, it is clearly irrevocable, and it needs to be made soon. It seems like I have to choose teaching or research, but not both. If I turn down grant, my research career goes down in flames, and I would probably really upset my postdoc mentor (primary mentor on K) since we did all of that work and I blew it up. If I stick with grant, I might lose out on coming back to bachelors college later (if they create and then fill a spot), and I feel like I am training for a non-existent job in this area (not good long-term bc we're not moving again). And there is financial pressure to take the grant, but my partner would prefer I stay here and says we'll figure out the finances. Transferring seems like it might be really thorny, though my postdoc mentor seemed ok/resigned to it and still wants to work with me if I did transfer.

Forum, am I nuts for even considering turning down an opportunity like an NIMH K grant? What would you do if you were in my situation? What sorts of strategies would you use to make this huge life decision?

Thanks to all for your insights! I'm curious as to what you all will make of this.

Anon (guest) 31 Jan 2016 15:13

Decision like this is never easy. To be honest, although we as outsiders may give you whatever suggestions we think are right, you should also trust your own heart. What do you really want? I have to say, from the lines, you seem to be a research oriented person and obviously did well. So teaching heavy load at a small college might not be your thing. You can do it for a couple years, but can you do it for the rest of your career? If you are not happy, your stress may cross over to everything, your kids, spouse, ect. So it may not worth it. I think, try to take award and see how it may work out. If it doesn't work out, then back out and go back to teaching. I think going the other way around is much more difficult (teaching to research).

decisionscience (guest) 01 Feb 2016 00:24

Think about the 2 or 3 most important things for the next 25 years (e.g., family, money, long-term security, inspiring work, kids, whatever) and if one option "feels" clearly better on at least 2 of 3 that's likely the "best" choice (e.g., same choice you'd make if you weighted and integrated EVERY possible value and risk with some multi-attribute utility analysis or decision optimization). Given how much uncertainty you're expressing, focusing on the core essentials will probably be even better than other decision processes.

I suspect that after so much education you might be thinking it's time to start "the good life" but you've probably got 5-6 times more work ahead than behind, and getting of the track now means that's where you're gonna stay. But, taking the K-award and spending 4 years on the market until you find a dream job in a good location that let's you put down real roots means another couple years of struggling instead of of lifetime of literally being stuck in whatever job you accept. You might check back with your grad institution or all your advisors' friends to see if anyone in a center somewhere can just create a contract position for you for a few years, reaping the K-award in the process.

Anon2 (guest) 01 Feb 2016 14:33

I don't believe you are nuts for considering turning the grant down - family is important and I respect your consideration of them. For a number of reasons I would give it very, very careful consideration before turning it down - there are many advantages inherent in the K, and you can't just get another one anytime you want. You have provided a lot of detail, but I won't pretend to know the situation well enough to steer in one direction or another. Here are some assumptions and thoughts:

Some assumptions (which could be challenged):
1. It is easier to go from research to teaching, if you need to do this in the future for job security
2. You have demonstrated strong research competency by getting the K award (congrats)
3. The K award is significant leverage in finding a job; there is a good chance by applying late for the job you applied to, that they never saw your application at all
4. This is a field really where the resources are divided into haves and have-nots, and by getting the K award you have demonstrated a likelihood of being one of the haves.

Some thoughts:

From a general perspective, it seems unlikely that you will miss out on coming back to "bachelor's college" later. You have an extremely unique opportunity with the K award, if you leave respectfully, stay on good terms with them there (e.g., email people on a somewhat regular basis to check in), you got a job there in the first place and now you are even more desirable. That being said, if there are local internal politics which get in the way or other mitigating factors, ignore this or adjust accordingly.

Do your wife and family understand how significant the provisions of a K award are, how much leverage it gives you in your career, and how hard they are to get? They may be thinking "that is a nice award you won" and not quite understand the gravity of it, and may react differently if they do. It is likely that with that level of success, you could make enough to be the sole breadwinner for your household (especially if you include consulting on the side at a TT position) and your wife could then work as much or as little as she wants at the hospital, which may be attractive to her if she is working long hours at present. Additionally, a TT job at a R1-type place can give a lot of flexibility - the hours can be long, but you can go pick your kids up from school if you want.

If you are making not much as a VAP, 8k is probably not a great pay bump. You can probably easily make that in consulting alone with a good position at a TT university. Also, when I mention consulting, that can mean many things, including traditional consulting, but basically any money on the side. You mentioned you have a clinical degree - if you see 3 patients/week at $175 an hour self pay, that is roughly $20k for 40 weeks/year of work.

It is easy to say you will "figure out the finances", but sometimes that means crippling debt which lingers, or both of you working way more than you originally wanted, which makes for less quantity and quality of time spent with your kids. That being said, you may have other financial means based on family support or other sources of which I am not aware. Also, is spending a problem (do you have problems paying car loans when a used car bought in cash will do, living in a house where the payments are significantly unfavorable, etc.); kids are not cheap and you may have student loans, but if it is possible to remedy some of these things, that may alleviate some stress.

What does your family owe you in this decision? If you were them, how would you feel taking someone who had this level of success and relegating them to a smaller place where their skills are unused, given what you are receiving? It doesn't appear you are asking them to move to Australia so you can have a modest bump in your productivity; it may be that you are asking them to move 7-8 hours for a substantial difference in the quality of life, both with regard to need for wife to work long hours and then more time for her to be with kids and possibly more time for you to be with kids (e.g., if you are running an R1 lab, can have your directs manage the lab when you want to take them to/from school). Also, 7-8 hours, while not next door, isn't THAT far away, though different families see things differently and you and your family may not be able to tolerate this (how did it go in the past?).

I have seen a K transfer before. It can have some complications, but if your focus is primarily on your family, it would not be just for your postdoc mentor to be resentful of that. He/she may still be resentful, and you will have to consider the complications accordingly, though I would challenge fears that he/she will dump you altogether (it is possible, but it would be easy to overstate these fears), and perhaps tell him/her your fears outright (e.g., want to continue to work with you, I have substantial pressure from sources XYZ, don't want to lose our relationship, can we make this work). You need to work with others to get tenure in your field also and will be less dependent on him/her over time, but of course you still want to value this relationship.

These thoughts are not comprehensive, but hopefully are of some help. Best of luck.

Re: Turning down a career development grant to work at a teaching college

DocJ 02 Feb 2016 13:27

Others have shared some good advice, but I'll add a few comments. Some of these are going to be pretty much the same ideas, though.

Foremost, I fully agree with Anon's thought that you need to determine what to prioritize for your own happiness. I wish I thought about this more when I was on the academic job market instead of tossing applications at nearly any institution or post-doc that came up. I ended up at a SLAC with a heavier teaching load. While I've mostly loved it, the teaching load and heap of service duties have cut into my research, which I also enjoy. At times, I wonder if a great post-doc would've been worth taking a chance on; I took my current job because the tenure-track security seemed too good to pass up. Now, though, I'm reassessing whether I should keep my current position or try to find something else.

I can tell you being at an institution with a load similar to a 3/4 that your research will take a big hit for at least a couple of years if you assume that position. That's especially true if the department lacks lab space. Where I'm at with a similar load, we do have lab space and even some research assistants. I still had to focus on prepping courses and figuring out my teaching for the first year or so. With how long publishing takes, going a year without keeping active in it can mean a 2+ year gap without publications on the CV. If the idea is that you can publish data you already collected, beware. I thought that, too. It didn't work that way.

So, the teaching position might seem attractive in the short-term for the security and family proximity, but in the long run unless you can keep active with publishing, you might end up trapped there. If you truly like the place and people, this can work well. But, if you're like me and want to have some balance between teaching and research, in a couple of years you could well end up with the stress of teaching a lot, doing research/writing on your own time (and on weekends), and then not really seeing family much anyways.

Your situation isn't unusual for dual-career couples. I suggest weighing which is most important to you - family or career and then identifying if your family is most important (and I hope they are), then ask whether you can be mostly content in a primarily teaching stream.

asstprof (guest) 02 Feb 2016 14:12

It seems to me you should consider what the possibilities are for colleges/universities in the area in the future. If there could be another R2 (or that same one, with another potential job opening up) down the line, then I would definitely lean towards taking the K award. It is a pretty special award, though obviously it would be an enormous strain on the family for you to travel so much. But hopefully it would be translated into a faculty position close to home after a year or so.

It sounds like you also like teaching and would be happy at an elite SLAC where you can continue a research program. I think you could be happy at a 3-3 place — this is where I've spent my last four years and I've been able to do considerable research as have my colleagues — but a 3-2 or 2-2 would be even better for you and your record is such that these very competitive positions would be attainable for you, especially now after you've done your VAP. I think that the 4-3 place isn't research focused enough for you. Really it is the culture and resources that matter as much as the actual teaching load. Because if the culture were to change, then down the line there would probably be a way to morph one of those classes into a research lab / lab meeting type course, in which case you're at a more manageable 3-3 load.

I want to say something else about the SLAC where you're working now. Higher ed is in crisis. Schools are closing. The first ones to go are the small liberal arts colleges that are not wealthy. A school that has the population you describe and the load you describe probably falls into this category. I'd take a HARD look at their finances before agreeing to a permanent position there (endowment is the easiest to look at, but probe as deeply as you can into other details, such as how often people get raises and by how much, enrollment numbers, etc.) Even if this school isn't going to close or anything, they could stop replacing TT lines (so you have to work with mostly adjuncts and take on an extremely high advising load) or increase the load further. You could experience very few raises that don't come close to tracking COL increases. In addition to a 3-2 or 2-2 SLAC being a better place to work for, it's a much more secure position financially because those places are unlikely to fold or experience a financial crisis. The elite SLACs tend to have endowments that are an order of magnitude (or more) greater than the less wealthy ones.

As DocJ said, if you take a TT position at the 4-3 SLAC, your research will slow down considerably. This isn't inherently a bad thing, but it closes doors for you. Again, not necessarily a bad thing because you could have a very happy life in that position forever, but it's bad if the school experiences problems or shuts down, or you decide you wanted to be doing more research afterall. 20 years into your TT job you can't really switch to another TT position, even at another SLAC, probably. I'm not sure how easy it is to break into some sort of industry position so late in the game either.

socialcurious (guest) 02 Feb 2016 15:24

I think the above posters have given some great advice, so won't repeat what everyone else is saying. I want to add to one of the comments above, that given that you applied for that local R2 position after the deadline, they may not have seen your application. I think it might be worth considering contacting the chair of the department for that school separately, to tell them about your situation and that you have a K award that you would be transferring there with if they open up a TT line for you. It is possible that in addition to their current open position, the higher-ups would be willing to create a position for you, given that you would be free and would be bringing in grant money.

Also, you mentioned in your post that your ideal would be a position that allows both teaching and research but right now your choices feel as though you have to choose one or the other. Honestly, accepting the K award may temporarily be more research focused than what you ultimately want, but down the line that is the only option that you have that would make you VERY competitive for those jobs (R2-type) that you say would be your ideal. Taking the teaching job would lead to a lot more difficulty trying to get back into the game if you decide some years down the road that you miss the research (even moving to a more selective LAC that values research would be more difficult at that point).

I think ultimately, you want to think about what will work for your career and happiness long term and not what the most convenient option is right now. Sounds like in your situation what may work best short-term may not be aligned with what might work best long-term.

Re: Turning down a career development grant to work at a teaching college

DocJ 02 Feb 2016 23:19

To add to AsstProf's excellent insight (above)…

1. Definitely examine the situation with any SLAC today. This holds true for everyone. If the institution has consistently declining or flat-lined + declining enrollment since 2011, be very wary. This is especially true if the institution has some sort of expensive program, expensive athletics, or departments that have many tenured faculty but very few students in the upper level classes.

2. Be mindful that at a SLAC you'll have a ton of service expectations. From some colleagues who work at community colleges with 5/5 loads, I dare say places with a 4/3 or 4/4 load can be as heavy in non-research work as a 5/5 community college. Bigger departments are a positive here - more faculty to divide the labor. In any event, I'd be very wary about keeping active research at a place with a 3/3 or heavier load if you have significant family responsibilities.

Only you can make the decision, but weigh the options carefully. To me, it seems a matter of deciding to go for a more family oriented life now at the demise of research or suffer through an inconvenient family situation for a while with hopes of something better career wise.

VAPs Rule (guest) 03 Feb 2016 20:21

Take the grant, unless you really really love that one specific college for some reason and don't want to have a research career. You'll burn out completely within a few years if you try to have active research career with a 3-4 load.

am_I_insane (guest) 03 Feb 2016 21:53

Thanks for all of the excellent and thoughtful advice. I was thinking that I would get a number of responses saying "take the grant" because of what kind of person tends to visit this site, but I am pleased to see that I'm not totally crazy for considering not taking my K. Still, pretty much everyone advised me to take the K in the end.

A couple of key considerations:
1. We're not moving, partner's not quitting. Simply isn't going to happen. We're rooted here now, so if I were to move away, it would be without family - not any kind of permanent solution at all. I would miss them too much.

2. If I take the grant, I'm most worried about three things.
- One, would it completely wreck my home life? I'd be around but working on grant 3 weeks out of the month, but gone for a whole week on the other week. We're getting settled here and I'm starting to have this prep thing better figured out. Also, the appeal of staying here is becoming a better rounded person (less obsessive focus on research, more outside interests, working out more, eating healthier, getting in shape). Part of me questions whether this research and training is even worth it.

-Two, would I be able to run the research and training components of the grant like this? There's maybe a bit of the imposter syndrome working here, but I do think it is a legitimate concern. It's hard to do many things remotely, hard to stay focused when working from home, and hard to parachute in, do a bunch of stuff that can only be done in person and then leave. I'm thinking regular days for the time I'm at home and 17-18 hour days when I'm on site. Has anyone ever run a grant this way? What is really required and what are best practices? I'd like to know what I'm getting into if I take the grant and cannot transfer it for a while or ever. 4-5 years of that also sounds like a recipe for burnout and family strife.

- Three, I'm not clinical, I'm bio/cog. But my research involves clinical populations, not really undergrads so much. So far, I've not been the one to build the lab and recruit these people and I'll never be able to diagnose them. So that idea of having to build a lab if I transfer the grant is daunting to me. Also, I get the perception that some cog people look down their noses at psychiatry and at people doing more clinically-oriented basic research ("I'll come up with a mode of the mind and nervous system, whereas you just work on a specific applied problem"). Is there really this perception sometimes or is it just a bad rumor I heard? I worry I would pigeonhole myself into needing to live on soft money in a psychiatry dept, and be shut out of psychology entirely due to this "basic vs. applied" bias. Thus, I could be training for a job that doesn't exist.

I'm still really torn about this. Hopefully I will soon have some clarity about whether there even is a TT job at the bachelors college and whether there is any possibility of transferring the grant to a place nearer to me. If there's no real job and no transfer possible, I'll have to take the grant (not the best feeling to be backed into it without options). If there is a job and no way to transfer, I am having such a hard time thinking about what taking the grant involves that I feel I might have to turn down the grant and do what I can in terms of research building on my own here. Unlike some researchers, I don't believe that I'm God's gift to research and that I'm going to be world famous or the next Steven Pinker. I don't really care about that stuff, to be honest. If I can do some interesting lower impact research, that might be fine with me. Honestly, a lot of research only gets read by a few people anyway…

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