What is tenure worth?

What is tenure worth?

slac_guest 31 May 2016 21:37

I am currently serving as an assistant professor at a SLAC in a rural area. I have a 4-4 teaching load but I still get to do a little bit of research. The pay is not great but I get by. I am just a little unhappy about the location of my school and the lack of diversity of the school and the surrounding area.

Recently, I have been thinking about giving up my tenure-track SLAC position and apply to a lecturer position at a R1 university. I looked up the salary data on chronicle and the pay would probably be comparable to my current pay, after considering the cost of living. In essence, I am thinking about exchanging tenure (and the little research I do) for a better location.

Have other people working at SLACs thought about this? I was really tempted to apply this past cycle but got cold feet. Tenure just seems like the holy grail (regardless of pay, nature of the job, and location) and lecturers sometimes get treated as second-class citizens in a R1 setting. I suspect that lecturers at R1 institutions with 4-4 teaching load get to do about as much research as I do.

Any thoughts on rural tenure-track SLAC vs. R1 lecturer?

Re: What is tenure worth?

Iliketomoveitmoveit 01 Jun 2016 03:34

We are an emerging R1 in a big metro area and employ 4+ full time lecturers. They make decent bank, full bennies and summers off (unless they teach a summer course at 7k+ a pop). If that's what you are looking for, I recommend it. We value our lecturers and they provide great teaching and service. Honestly, they may have better job security than TT Assistant Professors. Very little time for research, but you have to decide…

Re: What is tenure worth?

696969001 01 Jun 2016 14:16

I interviewed for a lecturer position at Penn State. Their lecturers have a 3/3 load (some of those are online prepackaged courses, ie, relatively easy to teach), no advising, and there is some room for your own research (though no funds for that). Salary around $45k, plus summer teaching if you want. They seemed like fantastic people, and very well organized and supportive. And, they made it clear that they want people who will stick around. And, a super vibrant research culture.

Now, the location might not be what you want, but my point is that some of these lecturer gigs look much better than some TT positions. One drawback of such a position might be limited salary increases over time, but that is the same at some relatively less well off SLACs or SCUs.

Re: What is tenure worth?

juniorfaculty 01 Jun 2016 19:14

I bet you can do better as an R1 lecturer. I'm pretty sure I could, and I teach a 3-3, not even a 4-4. When I was applying for jobs, someone else I knew got offered a lecturer position at an R1 with a 3-2 load and NO other responsibilities (no research and no advising.) The salary offer was the same as mine, at a 3-3 place with research expectations, advising, and general service. I'm sure my classes were smaller than this person's, but that other job sounded like it was less work for more pay (mine was also in a higher cost of living location). The other thing is that many SLACs with higher loads are struggling financially. So tenure honestly isn't even worth that much, because they can't guarantee a job for you if the school closes! Financial issues can happen to R1s as well and the lecturers will be axed before others are, but I'd say tenured at a mediocre SLAC might represent less job security than a lecturer at an R1, especially if your lectureship is in a solid, non-trendy program that consistently sees high enrollments (like psychology, of course).

For me being on the TT was really something I wanted because I wanted to run my own research program (even if very modest!) and contribute to university service and all of that, possibly moving up the admin ranks at a later time. Most places, kind of as you said, have lecturers on a different level/track and it can be harder to be intimately involved in the school. But I'd suggest that a lot of faculty would rather be less intimately involved!

If you want to keep doing research you can ask during an interview about getting undergrads involved in senior theses or independent studies. Lots of places that hire lecturers have more students interested in research than can be accommodated by the faculty, so they'd probably welcome this kind of inquiry. Sometimes the school has funds that can go directly to the student. You also need a cheap research program, like with surveys or studies that can be performed on your student's laptop, etc.

Re: What is tenure worth?

696969001 01 Jun 2016 21:45

Also, more about the Penn State Lecturer position: all on campus courses (vs the online courses) come with grad student TAs, and possibly undergrad TAs.

Re: What is tenure worth?

DocJ 04 Jun 2016 16:43

You might be selling yourself short by going from SLAC TT to R1 lecturer. Previously I was at teaching heavy SLAC but was able to move up to a regional master's level university as TT faculty with a much lower teaching load and excellent pay. From my experience and those of some colleagues, if you've maintained some level of productive research with a 4/4 load, have strong student evaluations, and can get some recommendations from your current colleagues, then you should be competitive for SLACs in better locations, SLACs with lower (3/3) teaching loads, and regional state universities. You might even be competitive for some R2s depending on your research achievements.

A final thought - it seems much easier to advance to a better position once you're already on TT. During my first search to get a TT position, I gained phone interviews with about 10% of all places I applied. Once I was TT, around 40% of places I applied for offered a phone interview, and my search then was significantly more selective.

Of course, if you want to primarily teach with little worry about "publish or perish" then a lecturer position might be perfect. The quality of lecturer positions varies by state and institution. I know some that have advancement to "senior lecturers" who are basically tenured lecturers.

Re: What is tenure worth?

slac_guest 04 Jun 2016 21:40

Good point, DocJ. It's probably a better move to go from SLAC TT to regional or R2 TT as I try to look for a better location.

Re: What is tenure worth?

lecturer_now 22 Jun 2016 15:43

I'm currently a lecturer and it does have really big perks—basically the lack of pressure and more free time. Half of my classes are online so there's that flexibility and I get TAs for online classes. The lecturers in my department also only will answer student emails during "business hours" (M-F 8-4), and so really you aren't tied to your email (unless you want to be). This was a big change for me and I have really come to love not being tied to my email or work 24/7 and having a lot more time to do other activities.

My university is in a weird position right now where they are developing online programs so I also get paid for teaching some of the online sections "off book" and this basically bumps up my salary almost another $15,000 + $7,000 for an online summer class and so this year I made as much as I think a TT assistant prof would in my department. However, you likely won't get the salary bumps that you would in a TT position.