Is some job better than no job?

Is some job better than no job?

anon! anon! (guest) 03 Dec 2010 21:17

After a seemingly interminable period of no word from any schools, I finally have someone interested. However, they are offering a low salary (10-15k less than what I make now as a VAP), the worst benefits package I have ever seen, and a larger teaching load than I would like. Some questions:

1) Are other people experiencing this problem? It's a buyer's market, so are lots of places making lame offers because they can and/or because it's the only way they can hire in this bad economy?

2) Is there such a thing as a job that is worse than nothing? Is it a bad idea to permanently commit to such a low standard of salary/benefits for a long-term position? Or is it better to take any tenure track position one can get and try to go elsewhere if it doesn't satisfy?

I appreciate everyone's ideas about this.

Anon Again (guest) 03 Dec 2010 22:27

My advice: You need to take two things into consideration 1) Could you still be productive at this job, despite its downsides and 2) Are you comfortable with the potential of not becoming and academic.

There is nothing wrong with taking a position and then leaving if/when you can find something assuming that you remain productive in the new position. This is what I did. I knew the job I was taking wasn't my ideal fit, but I did see it as a place where I could be productive. If you find the teaching load to be very high (say something like a 4-4) you may not have the ability to do the work you need to do in order to leave. I have heard some stories of people getting stuck in a sub-par place and spending years and years trying to get out. (I know one person in particular who was trying to leave his institution for something like 15 or 20 years - he did eventually make it out.) The other issue I have encountered with my own search this year is that as someone in a TT position, you are a known quantity. Objectively comparing my vita to some of the post-docs or PhD students out there I know I have more pubs, more independent research projects, more teaching experience, and more grant money. But with me SCs know that what they see is what they'll get. I'm solid, but I'm no rock star. With a Post Doc with a strong record they can imagine the rock star trajectory this student may eventually have. As such, my interviews thus far (and based on what I have seen so far on the wiki - what I expect will be true when all is said and done) have been at what would likely be objectively considered lateral moves (although they do offer something better from perspective - dept that is a better fit, better geographical location, etc).

These concerns need to be balanced with point #2

If you do nothing for a year (are not adjunct, or post-docing, or VAPing) it will be MUCH MUCH more difficult for you to eventually obtain a TT position. An unemployed PhD does not make for an attractive job candidate. I have heard (but perhaps others may have gotten different advice) that it is almost impossible to go from a non-academic job (for example working for a research group like RAND or in media and marketing) to a TT position (unless you can somehow sell your position as a "post doc.) Thus, if you don't take the job and nothing pans out then you may be effectively leaving academia. This has come up on other boards, and I have seen it with my own friends, that as psychologists we are lucky in that there ARE jobs out there for PhDs in psychology outside of academia. My Philosopher friend who is on his 3rd year of a VAP (one year at one school, 2nd year here) has basically come to the realization that he may simply have to leave academia and do something completely unrelated to his philosophy degree. If your heart is set on being an academic, it would be a risky move not to take an offer you have. But I wonder if right now you are just at the interview stage? If so, then there may be some time for other things to pan out. I'd suggest going on the interview and entering into negotiations, at the same time start exploring alternative options - is there a post doc possibility? Could your current institution keep you an additional year (perhaps if not as a VAP then as an adjunct)?

anon_1 (guest) 03 Dec 2010 23:48

Dear anon! anon! I applied to about 80 positions and had 3 job offers last application cycle, two of them for TT positions, and one for a faculty position in a for-profit institution (Psy.D. program). One of TT was in a community/state college with a 5/5 teaching load, another one was a 4/4 in a teaching institution with a very low salary. I gave them up and took a post-doc instead, largely because I was told that I would be stuck in those places and it would be almost impossible to get out, given such a high teaching load. If you cannot stay in your current VAP position, maybe you can try to look for a good post-doc? Good luck to you!

anon (guest) 03 Dec 2010 22:19

A few questions - 1) What is a VAP? 2) What comprises a bad benefits package?

I am pretty new to all of this but I would say given you sound like you really don't want this position, maybe it's worth waiting some time to see what other offers might come through for you. It seems early. Curious to see what others think.

Anon Again (guest) 03 Dec 2010 22:42

VAP = Visiting Assistant Professor

anon! anon! (guest) 16 Dec 2010 20:29

I forgot to respond to the "lame benefits package" question! Issues I look at when evaluating a benefits package (and I am defining "benefits" broadly, to include anything that does not relate directly to your salary/research funding) are as follows:

1) How much you end up paying for your insurance and how good your insurance options are. Really great places cover the cost of your medical, vision, and dental insurance, will add your family at a reasonable price, and offer very good benefits (low co-pays, coverage of everything you want, etc.). In the middle, some offer ok insurance for free with the option to pay to upgrade, and how much it costs to add your family depends on how much you upgrade, if at all. The "worst" places make you pay for your insurance no matter what, and it's just a matter of whether you want to pay for crappy insurance or pay more for better insurance.

2) What kind of accommodations they offer for things like maternity/paternity leave. This can range from the very posh 100% maternity/paternity leave for birth or adoption for an entire semester to the bare legally-required minimum of 3 months unpaid leave for mothers giving birth only, guaranteed not to count against your tenure evaluation.

3) What kind of provisions they have for health and wellness (free gym access? cheap fitness classes either through insurance or through the school? etc.) and whether your family can make use of those facilities/opportunities also.

4) What kind of relocation assistance do they offer? There are two subcategories of this:
a) Reimbursement for moving (some places will offer nothing, some places will give you a fixed amount that you can spend on your move, some will raise that amount incrementally if you live far away and/or if you have a spouse + kids, and some will straight up reimburse the cost of your move, including providing movers that they pay directly, whatever it costs)
b) Help finding a place to live. If you are not familiar with the area you are moving to, it is hard to find a place you will be happy living in for your first year when you do not live nearby. Some places have a set of houses new faculty can rent for a year or two while they get settled and look for a house to buy or a more long-term rental. These places are often subsidized and maintained by the school (e.g. more space for cheaper), and are guaranteed to be located somewhere convenient/nearby for faculty, since that is the entire reason they exist. Some places offer assistance getting a great mortgage (like, they have special programs to incentivize faculty to live near campus, and they offer very low interest rates and so on). Other places just kind of say "you're on your own."

5) Help finding work for your spouse. Some places will actually let you present finding a job for your spouse in one of the offices at the college/university as a contingency of your agreement to work there (usually, this is only possible at larger places - small colleges just don't have the flexibility to do this). Others will have a list of certain places that professors' spouses often find work, and will refer you to those places. Others will basically just say "good luck."

I weigh 1, 2, and 3 most heavily, but these are all important in their own way, depending on your situation.

Re: Is some job better than no job?

vd 03 Dec 2010 23:37

I agree with Anon Again's advice, although I'll add that another possibility is to become a postdoc. I know of a couple people who have gone from VAP -> postdoc -> T-T faculty job.

I like to keep in mind something my graduate advisor told me (and it echoes part of Anon Again's advice): It's easier to move laterally or down than to move up (in terms of the quality of the job and the university where you work), so if you take a crummy job you could be stuck with it for a long time.

anon! anon! (guest) 04 Dec 2010 01:27

Thanks, everyone. This is really helpful.

Anonymous (guest) 04 Dec 2010 02:40

Anon again's advice is stellar. To that, I might add that it is still early in the hiring season. Schools which tend to make less competitive offers often hire early and present a candidate with a short time to decide whether or not they want the job. They capitalize on a candidate's nervousness of "what if this is it?" Like anon again, I am in a TT job looking for a better fit. My first time on the market, the job I wanted the most (which I didn't get … sigh) asked me for an interview in February. they'd interviewed a bunch of folks, decided they didn't like any of them, returned to the pool, interviewed me (didn't like me and didn't hire anyone … I prob dodged a bullet, but the larger point is that I was SO excited about this school and I heard from them late in the game).

Poor ABD (guest) 14 Dec 2010 04:56

Hmmm what do people think about a job that requires 3/3 teaching load but gives new faculty 2/2? They claim they are flexible with teaching load such that teaching a larger class will count for 2 teaching credits. Do people in social end up being productive in research with a 3/3 teaching load on average? Oh and there is no TA support at this place.

bitter (guest) 14 Dec 2010 07:06

3/3 isn't so bad. I know someone who had a 4/4 teaching load in a tenure track position (this is at a small college)! I know they found it pretty impossible to do research under those conditions and ended up leaving. It really ends up what the courses are, though. One of the places I am looking at has a 3/3 load but one of the three each semester is a repeat course (so two sections of intro one semester, two sections of course x second semester). Things like that, or the "large class = 2 units" allowance, make all the difference, because you get two units of credit for one unit of preparation. Also keep in mind that while a 2/2 load might feel brutal in your first year as you are easing in, in your second year, you will be re-teaching the same courses and it won't be nearly as cumbersome. 3/3 is not as bad as it sounds if you work up to it.

I am talking in the context of a liberal arts college - I really don't know about universities.

Anonymous (guest) 16 Dec 2010 16:27

3/3 is fine. Ask about other options to fill teaching load like undergrad independent research, buy outs, running colloquia series, etc. Might end up actually being 2/2 after everything is accounted for. If it's a real 3/3 then it might be ok if you can do repeats like Bitter said.