"Two body problem"

"Two body problem"

slugbug 14 Dec 2011 15:34

I am part of a dual academic couple, both in clinical psychology.
I'm writing to ask whether others have any good advice about how to go about navigating the system given this constraint. My partner and I were not savvy about how to go about it this year, and I'm afraid we made some poor decisions early on that will likely impact our ability to find two positions that are a good fit.

Any advice from applicants or SC members would be very helpful…
strategies you've seen as being effective? ineffective? annoying (to the SC)? understandable (i.e., not annoying to the SC)?

ITK (guest) 14 Dec 2011 16:06

I'm in a similar situation though my spouse is not in psychology so this might be a little different. We lucked out in that we both got tenure-track jobs at the same R1 via independent searches. What seems to be more typical is that one member of the couple is a "better" candidate than the other and when that person gets a job in a department the other might be brought on board as a "spousal hire" (which can range anywhere from a tenure-track position to an adjunct).

One thing I would advise you not to do is bring up the two body situation before or during an interview. Before you get an offer, you have no leverage. Unless you or your sig. other is THE superstar of superstars on the market this year, mentioning your sig. other will need a job in the same department could easily decrease your chances of getting an offer because most departments seem to be on tight budgets in this economic environment. After you get an offer (and esp. if you can get multiple offers), the power then shifts to the candidate. Because the department has committed to you as the top choice you have some leeway in negotiating at least an adjunct position for your sig. other.

Another approach is to limit your searches to schools in the same large city (e.g., NYC or Chicago). You both might be able to obtain positions at different universities in the same location.

The whole academic job search process, which is arduous to begin with, is so much worse when have to find 2 positions, especially 2 in the same area (that's really tough). Good luck with everything!

new anon (guest) 14 Dec 2011 16:08

One thing I have heard of people trying for at R1s is to get an offer, and then create some trailing spouse offer that is not as awesome but still a pretty sweet deal (i.e. not actually tenure-track and can't have graduate students, but you get some minimal lab space, you teach, and you can co-advise students and/or have undergrads.) I consider this a sweet deal because you wouldn't have the same pressure to get tenure if they liked your spouse—they'd just keep you on indefinitely with that low-pressure arrangement.

Otherwise I have no idea of how this kind of thing is solved. In my area there are 3 or so places that have 2 jobs in the school, and maybe 3 or so other locations that have jobs in neighboring schools. It's just not a lot of options. I also don't imagine there is anything a smaller school or an R2 could do.

FirstYearProf (guest) 14 Dec 2011 17:59

I agree with ITK that it's not a good idea to advertise your situation during the interview process, although if someone asks you point-blank what your spouse does (something that's not supposed to happen but does all the time), I wouldn't lie. The only other bit of advice I can offer is to really reflect on your priorities and goals. Is one of you comfortable with being a "trailing" spouse who may never make it to the tenure track? Are you willing to live apart for a few years while you both work on building your careers and keeping your eyes open for new opportunities? Many (most?) academic couples aren't able to solve their two body problems right off the bat, so it's a good idea to discuss the hard questions while you have the time and before offer deadlines kick in.

anonbanon (guest) 15 Dec 2011 05:00

People I've known in such a situation usually have the "weaker" of the two people apply for the job. Then, if the person gets the job, it becomes "how about I also throw in this EVEN BETTER PERSON TOO???"… When the "stronger" person gets the job, then asks for a job for the weaker person, departments and universities can get mad, feeling the second person was forced on them. Often, the weaker person then gets offered a lesser position such as a lecturer or staff position rather than a faculty line as well… So, I recommend leading with the weaker person, unless of course the stronger of you two is a super, superstar.

guest (guest) 06 Jan 2012 18:43

From my own experience… First, I do recommend bringing the spousal issue up in the interview IF there is absolutely no way you'd go there without a spousal position — it takes awhile to work out these arrangements and can leave hard feelings if they invest time/resources in traveling to interview and not considering other more viable candidates. If you might go to the school w/o a job for your partner, then I agree about waiting to disclose until the offer is made. Second, I don't think the 'better' person issue is as relevant as a 'match' issue with the applicant department when partners come from different departments. I have multiple federal grants and have been offered positions at very good institutions (where my husband could not find a position) but was not considered as spousal hire at a not-great psychology school (where my husband was offered a job) because that school did not really provide spousal hires. Note that my husband also has a federal grant and is a strong candidate. As far as I can tell, its a crap shoot. Some schools are more supportive of spousal hires than other schools.

acn (guest) 20 Jan 2012 18:12

I was going through some old posts and saw this one. slugbug—you just asked about starting up a new TT position so how did it work out with your two body problem, I wonder? I hope it worked well! Good luck.

anonnnn (guest) 20 Jan 2012 19:46

I have some experience with this, since my spouse and I are in the same department but in different areas. In our case, my spouse was hired on as an adjunct when I started my tenure-track position (this type of spousal accommodation is relatively common). The department was not ready to hire my spouse into a tenure-track position when we first arrived, but ultimately they did offer a TT position once I received a competing offer at a comparable school. I can't say whether this is likely to happen elsewhere, but it worked for us. My only advice is to not let the adjunct position bog you down so heavily with teaching that your research suffers. Instead, try to work out a half-time adjunct position which will allow you time to conduct research and also teach. Good luck!

Re: "Two body problem"

slugbug 24 Jan 2012 02:06

Hey ACN - thanks for following up. Our situation did work out quite well.
The school was not able to offer a TT position to my spouse, but did help us a lot with networking to find another position. Thankfully, the clinical degree is fairly versatile within the realm of academia, so there were several other departments that "fit" my partner. We are both very excited!

Last edited on 24 Jan 2012 02:07 by slugbug + Show more